Ban reason

[AA™| prasanths96]

I guess he's not gonna reply here anymore.. His attitude clearly showed on whose side fault was..

Sweet, what i expected.

No replays, chat screenshots, nothing.

When i will get unban, i will post a topic to ban some players, surely i will dont post any replays, screens, etc.
I'm sure you will ban them instantly.

Thanks for fast and brilliant anserw.

Greetings.

btw, i know why racism is bad. It's because some people can call you racist, and then they are untouchable.

And that ^ attitude is shows real maturity. So, guess we dont need any more proofs.

[meddc]

Guys. No point in dissecting this any further unless there is anything new to be found in the server logs. Until then any comments are just throwing fuel on the fire.

[meddc]

I have reviewed the logs. I have to say there is not much in there of note. mundziel is actually very quiet in the chat on the server. The exchange goes like this:

Code:

14.10.19 19:27:19 #2 C17P00 ortek87 - AA? | Senna : sürekli yasakl?yorum onu

Which I believe is a comment in relation to the previous ban? Google translate isn't so good at giving me context for this.

Munziel pipes up:

Code:

14.10.19 19:27:30 #2 C60P00 mundziel - mundziel : turkish talking starts

Then we have shortly afterwards:

Code:

14.10.19 19:27:38 #2 C60P00 mundziel - mundziel : im outta here before they will ban me
14.10.19 19:27:46 #2 C17P00 ortek87 - AA? | Senna : oh the little racist guy is here again
14.10.19 19:27:58 #2 C60P00 mundziel - mundziel : yeah, greetings from europe
14.10.19 19:28:06 #2 C17P00 ortek87 - AA? | Senna : too bad, i live in europe too :(
14.10.19 19:28:22 #2 C60P00 mundziel - mundziel : not so.
14.10.19 19:28:32 #2 C60P00 mundziel - mundziel : ppl can say its europe ;]
14.10.19 19:28:43 #2 C60P00 mundziel - mundziel : i have little different view on it
14.10.19 19:28:47 #2 C60P00 mundziel - mundziel : anyway, bye

After that, I see there is a ban from Senna for 14 days and a private message (presumably to Jacques) which is not worth repeating here, but seems to indicate Senna has quite a lot of frustration with this guy.

So, in summary, I see not much overt racism in this particular exchange, but I do see an intent to offend Senna and wind him up. There is also clearly some previous here which we are not privvy too. I would say, therefore, that in the circumstances, we should trust Senna's judgement on this and the ban should remain as punishment for both this incident and any previous instances of disrespect/racism.

I would simply advise mundziel to treat admins with respect in future, to not make sweeping statements about people from a particular country, and to stay out of trouble.

AA servers are for racing on, not petty discussions about whether Turkey ought to be part of Europe! So let's stick to the racing, eh guys?

Also, please no more comments on this topic unless there are any new opinions to share. We know that everyone here supports Senna already so don't need an endless list of people saying the same thing for a second time. TIA and hopefully case closed!

[AA™| Jacques]

Meddc, I actually have some words to let out and don´t think we should hurry to suppress these discussions so hastly. Good that you´ve taken the time to go over the logs already, as that´s what Senna wanted. And there is no such thing as too much support after being called out in the open. I´d hope this generates more discussions between us.


I was on the server when this happened, but so concentrated on racing that missed whole thing and woke up only when Senna started messaging Delta and me of what had already taken place. So didn´t want to give out too much before proper response from Senna.

Personal note: Those of us who are active on track and use their rights, will at some point get questioned or directly attacked on forum - even baited in long term.. But by default every AA member has benefit of doubt from me in cases where its members word against someone else. As in this case as no proof of unjust behavior was presented (to top it off mundziel shot himself on the leg already on his 2nd post). What I mean to say is that no member should be afraid to act if there is a high chance of retaliation here in forum. Of course its always good to keep calm and think throughly before banning players.

Other thing I want to bring out is that few times I´ve been reported of cases where racers say they are protected by me or someone else and have been believed by our members. For this I can only say no matter how friendly we seem to be with racers, they are under no protection from misbehavior!

[viraaj5555]

(Sorry for off-topic )
I would like to say :
Not this case,but in general,we should always save replays when banning someone,especially when it's for several days,if you don't want to (or can) save them on your computer 'cause it will eat the hard disk (though they aren't of big dimensions) you can use Dropbox to save your disk space..

[mundziel]

Hi, thanks for anserws and care.

Well, we have chat log clearly. What we can see there? That Senna is calling me "racist guy" instantly. Then i said my opinion about geography, said bye, and quit.

Guys, you are very, very unfair and inconsequent. Guy is calling me racist, and i'm getting banned for going away.

[Fatal Unfair]

Hi, thanks for anserws and care.

Well, we have chat log clearly. What we can see there? That Senna is calling me "racist guy" instantly. Then i said my opinion about geography, said bye, and quit.

Guys, you are very, very unfair and inconsequent. Guy is calling me racist, and i'm getting banned for going away.

So what was the part about " turkish talking starts"? Do you always point out what happens around you? Do you just say to yourself in the store, "People picking up groceries".

[meddc]

@mundziel - You are entitled to your opinion, and I probably wouldn't have banned you myself, but as I said, Senna obviously had previous experience with you and decided a ban was in order and we will back him on this. Clearly I and others here don't believe it to be particularly unfair, and they're our servers, so it's kind of tough! Like I said above - if you stick to racing then there will be no problems in future. It's now case closed on this.

@Jacques - I don't mean to suppress any discussion. Just that many posts in this topic added nothing new to the debate and in most cases were made without all the facts available. When people do that, it's not much more than a playground argument with people "ganging up" or taking sides.

There is plenty of opportunity for us to debate on things in these forums but in the case of complaints against our limads, we need to take them seriously and investigate properly. I do sometimes feel that it would be better if we held discussions in private internally, or perhaps they could be reviewed by a single senior member, rather than having free for all.

And might I also say I wholeheartedly agree that all our members should be saving replays when they issue a ban in order to to speed up any complaints of these nature. I don't know why people continue not to take this basic step in order to defend their actions!

[AA™| Jacques]

Mundziel, I see yesterday you have created new account (3_MMC) to go around the issued ban.


Meddc, I think we should let the discussions quiet down on their own. To remind you, this topic is barely 1 day old. Not every member has had chance to read it let alone comment on it. If those comments hold no value to some, they still might matter to others.

Investigating these matters privately is hard if complaint is made out publicly. I do agree that we should first discuss about the investigation and first see if there is insight to be gained. Replays are good for sorting out crashers, hackers or judging a dispute over accidents. But when we are going over cases like this, history plays a big part in the whole picture and at worst single replay might give distorted image of it.

[meddc]

I don't have anything further to add on this topic now. Might I suggest that any further discussion on how the team wants to handle complaints takes place in a new topic in the team discussion forum, though, rather than here?