Sainted(ymeshulin) is Crasher Report

[evilwizard]

Your LFS Username:eseting
Offender's LFS Username:ymeshulin
Description of the incident:Knowing hit
Replay / Screenshot link: http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?fil...9672411196
Replay timestamp(s): 1:56:00 - 2:01:00




15-60 day ban i think
It makes clear that knowing.
If I'm glad to be done.

[Seven]

I'm interested in the chat that followed.

From what I saw, he was obviously put off when you cut him off - although, you were entitled to that line being ahead. It was a move that would not have succeeded flawlessly. Both of you then mess up the following corner, him coming to fast in desperation to get past and you going too fast to prevent him. Then the main incident where he comes off the grass, checks his 9 o'clock and turns sharper to collide with you.

Based on previous incidents and what was said there Sainted will be banned for 3 days as he continues to show a lack of care to lesser experienced drivers than himself.

Sainted: You're lucky I'm only placing a 3 day ban - my fellow Limads would probably think I'm being too kind. I'm being nice because I believe you know that you're still being too hard on other drivers. Sure you have good races where you can be side by side for laps, but not everyone is that good. Back down, make sensible moves unless you know that the driver will be able to handle what you're doing. Any further reports will, unfortunately for you, carry a firmer punishment. I hope you take these words respectfully and use them to construct a more suited attitude to our servers.

[Sainted]

First of I all, I respect that fact that I should not have retaliated, and I accept the punishment for this.

However, I completely disagree with the assessment of the move before. Here is my view:

1:40: I feel the BMW is slower, and attempt to pull alongside to gain an advantage into the final corner. BMW either does not see me, or has too much speed, so he drifts outside thus collecting me into the run off area. When I am in a position similar to BMW's here, I always make sure the car on the outside has at least a car width of space on outside of the corner
1:47: I am upset (honking my horn), but trying to recover, which I succeed at, approach the last corner. Despite not being on the ideal racing line, I have my speed under control, and I am clear and ahead of BMW
1:50: BMW also tries to make the corner, however sees me clearly, and has an obvious intent to crash me - he is under full power, and regardless of the car in front of him (me), proceeds to slam into the back of that car

So, my conclusion:

- I accept the blame for retaliation, which is poor judgement on my side
- The contact in the penultimate corner was a racing incident caused by my optimistic move on a slower car (BMW), and BMW's inability to register me being on his outside
- The following contact in the last corner is solely BMW's responsibility, and was an intentional crash
- If this was not intentional (which I doubt), it was perfectly avoidable. Instead, having me clearly ahead of him and visibly approaching the corner at an angle far from ideal, BMW did nothing to avoid an accident, and instead applied full power in an effort to crash me

So I am happy to serve the ban - I am going on a business trip to Sweden until Thursday anyway - however I strongly encourage an admin to review BMW's actions as well.
-----------------------------------------------

On a separate note: indeed, I consider myself one of the better racers on the server, having an ability to cleanly pass and defend in every corner of the track. I do make a mistake sometimes of expecting the same from everyone, which clearly is overly optimistic. It is also true that I have no respect for those individuals who arrive at the server with little experience and proceed to cause havoc by engaging in racing they have insufficient skills for. I am also being increasingly well known as someone who encourages learning, taking advice and following the steps of more seasoned racers.

Therefore I will definitely reconsider the amount of expectation I put on more junior racers, however I will not change my approach to those individuals who create mass crashes or are generally inconsiderate to fellow racers.

[Seven]

Upon Sainted's request I re-analyzed BMW's contribution to the incident.

Point by point:
- BMW had a fault for failing to see your maneuver out wide, but you must know the track by muscular memory in order to spare the time to check your wide-side mirror at the last second for such an ambitious move. As a result, no punishment for this.
- BMW maintained his line, at this point the brain would suggest you would slide right out of his path until the car is actually colliding with yours is where human error proved true. In this amount of time, I would not expect anyone to slam their brakes to avoid a crash - there's a reason they call it two "two second rule" when driving as that is the maximum acceptable time in dry conditions for the brain to process and then make an action. In this incident he had roughly half a second from where he realized you were going to crash to where he actually reduced his throttle to 0 and you were out of the way.

Put it down to common race accident, I certainly wouldn't ban for this but instead apologize and move on.

[AA™| joruss]

1:40: I feel the BMW is slower, and attempt to pull alongside to gain an advantage into the final corner.

...which you failed Your front axle never even went past his rear axle (which gives you rights to have a cars width of space. And any decent racing driver (especially one that "considers himself one of the better racers on the server") should have see this coming, period.

BMW either does not see me, or has too much speed, so he drifts outside thus collecting me into the run off area. When I am in a position similar to BMW's here, I always make sure the car on the outside has at least a car width of space on outside of the corner

I know you may not be 100% impartial when it's your ass on the line but you seem blinded in this case. Almost feels like if you were watching different replay.

1:47: I am upset (honking my horn), but trying to recover, which I succeed at, approach the last corner. Despite not being on the ideal racing line, I have my speed under control, and I am clear and ahead of BMW
1:50: BMW also tries to make the corner, however sees me clearly, and has an obvious intent to crash me - he is under full power, and regardless of the car in front of him (me), proceeds to slam into the back of that car

- You're mostly upset on yourself but trying to blame the others
- No, you weren't on ideal line. but You just went across the racing line of the fellow racer, slammed brakes mid corner trying to make it, parking in the middle of the racing line and was surprised when someone hit you.



Look where your cars are pointing. His - to the apex, your to the fence.
Into his favour points that he's letting go AA?| E A Presley pass by, but probably not paying enough attention to speeding bullet on his left.
80/20 on you I'm afraid.

No explanation for 1:58? Shame...

If this stuff will be repeating (and since that's how you roll sooner or later it will) someone will ban you for longer. Please reconsider your approach to racing.

[Sainted]

Joruss, again, your post is a pile of disappointment and a clear showcase of going out of your way to find things to blame on me.

- I have no problem with the first contact. I have accepted (read my post) that this was an opportunistic move, which was based on a feeling that BMW is a very slow driver (look at his braking point into the penultimate corner), and hope he will be sensible to faster approaching racers. This was an error on my part, which I openly admit (read my post again).
- I was in a hurry to recover the position, and I have almost succeeded in doing so - I would have easily made the final corner, albeit most certainly losing the position to him again due to not being on an ideal line (read the post for the 3rd time)
- BMW has made an obvious effort to crash me. I have certainly rejoined in a risky manner, but I was not in the mood to wait until he crawls through the corner. That's how I race, but I don't do that to people I respect. And you know, I respect people selectively.
- BMW was not letting Pressley by - Pressley has long cruised by during our first contact.
- BMW has crashed me on purpose - why you do not see this is mistery to me.
- I have retaliated, which I admit is poor judgement and the ban is deserved.
- Seven's mention of the 'two second rule' does not apply, as BMW had more than two seconds to see I was coming / not planning to hand him the position / I was not in the best shape to make the corner at racing speed / notice that I was braking. Again, this was a conscienscious effort to wipe me off the track, which of course you don't see because you don't want to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have repeatedly stated that I will approach racing the way I see it, not the way you dictate. As long as my racing receives positive reviews from peers - of which there is a couple - I figure I do the right thing. Some slack should be cut to slower and less experienced drivers, I agree with this, and I will put a lot of effort into this. However I refuse to treat the server as a gentlemen's club, where we follow each other in procession and overtake only by slipstream at the end of the long straight.

I am a racer, Joruss, and have been for around 15 years, so if you have a problem with that, a 999 day ban will cost you less time than writing crap about front axle vs. rear axle. That's why you don't want me to have admin rights on this server - you just fear this will become a racers' place with bumber-to-bumper clean 30 lap races, and not 4-lap gay club where inexperienced punks like BMW are protected by admins.

[AA™| joruss]

Joruss, again, your post is a pile of disappointment and a clear showcase of going out of your way to find things to blame on me.

Not everything goes circles around you. Frankly, apart from couple forum postings, I hardly know you and I don't see how can I (and why should I) be biased. I know BMW even less I just make my assessment on the evidence.

- I have no problem with the first contact. I have accepted (read my post) that this was an opportunistic move, which was based on a feeling that BMW is a very slow driver (look at his braking point into the penultimate corner), and hope he will be sensible to faster approaching racers.

That wasn't opportunistic move that was Hail Merry and unrealistic expectations from slower players to let you go "cuz I'm fastaaaaa!" So here's news for you, they don't have to and it's to you to pass them SAFELY which you didn't.

- I was in a hurry to recover the position, and I have almost succeeded in doing so - I would have easily made the final corner, albeit most certainly losing the position to him again due to not being on an ideal line (read the post for the 3rd time)

Again, If I was in BMWs place the outcome would be similar. I'd expect you to overshoot the corner and end up on the grass an I'd try to make it past you on the inside, but if you stand in my way contact is to be expected

- BMW has made an obvious effort to crash me. I have certainly rejoined in a risky manner, but I was not in the mood to wait until he crawls through the corner. That's how I race, but I don't do that to people I respect. And you know, I respect people selectively.

And there are 3 main problems.
- "rejoined in risky manner"
- "I was not in a mood" (perhaps you shouldn't drive when you're not in a mood?)
- "I respect people selectively"

- BMW was not letting Pressley by - Pressley has long cruised by during our first contact.
- BMW has crashed me on purpose - why you do not see this is mistery to me.

He was letting him by safely (EAP being on racing line and faster) and then went back on racing line.

- I have retaliated, which I admit is poor judgement and the ban is deserved.
- Seven's mention of the 'two second rule' does not apply, as BMW had more than two seconds to see I was coming / not planning to hand him the position / I was not in the best shape to make the corner at racing speed / notice that I was braking. Again, this was a conscienscious effort to wipe me off the track, which of course you don't see because you don't want to.

I never said he isn't partially to blame but the majority of it is caused by you.

I have repeatedly stated that I will approach racing the way I see it, not the way you dictate. As long as my racing receives positive reviews from peers - of which there is a couple - I figure I do the right thing. Some slack should be cut to slower and less experienced drivers, I agree with this, and I will put a lot of effort into this. However I refuse to treat the server as a gentlemen's club, where we follow each other in procession and overtake only by slipstream at the end of the long straight.

I've seen this countless times, good racers but crap when it comes to dealing with slower/less experienced folk.

I am a racer, Joruss, and have been for around 15 years, so if you have a problem with that, a 999 day ban will cost you less time than writing crap about front axle vs. rear axle. That's why you don't want me to have admin rights on this server - you just fear this will become a racers' place with bumber-to-bumper clean 30 lap races, and not 4-lap gay club where inexperienced punks like BMW are protected by admins.

I'm sure sooner or later you'll get it. And attacks ad persona ain't helping your case

[AA™| Energy]

I have my conclusions about this incident but I don't want to join into an endless discucion so I'll be neutral here.
However, I have to comment that I do not understand and can not find the sense of this here:

That's why you don't want me to have admin rights on this server - you just fear this will become a racers' place with bumber-to-bumper clean 30 lap races, and not 4-lap gay club where inexperienced punks like BMW are protected by admins.

1: Many of us doesn't want to give you admin rights. Nothing personal, just you haven't the judgement of an admin.
2: Even if you have admin rights, you can't do what you want. Our server configurations are optimized with some parameters... also some of us like to race in long races (and yes, joruss is one who like this races) but it doesn't work like you think, less in demo servers.

[Seven]

You want 30 lap bumper to bumper races, Sainted, buy S2 and join the mountain of league races out there?

There's no point us apologizing that Demo isn't the same, we welcome inexperienced drivers, not punish them. Unless of course, they think the clutch is a throttle and the steering wheel is made of jello.

[AA™| morro22]

You want 30 lap bumper to bumper races, Sainted, buy S2 and join the mountain of league races out there?

Couldn't agree more.