Shift + S debate

[spe1l]

Thank you Seven. My issue is not when people go a little off the line etc etc i am more angry when someone has span out on let's last the last turn blocking 90% of the track they have like 10 maybe 20 seconds before the rest of the pack catches up but yet they sit they until the idle timer specs them or they try to turn around and carry on making other crash. In my years of lfs any decent human will show respect to racers and a race and for someone to say you do not need to shift + s and it's ok if you ruin is a race is beyond me. All AA staff i have raced with always tell people to shift + s or even kick them for not doing so due to the person causing others to crash. My debate is with Marshal i don't want to sound disrespectful but it seems he is the only one who thinks that by shift+s is not needed in any situation and again please don't take this a disrespect but i race AA almost every day and i have not seen Marshal/vim race on AA for a long time. So my guess is he is a little out of touch with the racers on AA server. In any server we should all respect each other by keeping the races clean and fun. Again please do not take offense to this but we all know that people should hit the shift+s to avoid causing the rest of the race to crash even if you are trying to make this real life. Thank you all for the input but i feel my mind is made up and i'd love marshal to spend a few hours racing on AA as every racer i have spoken to agrees you should hit shift+s.

[AA™| prasanths96]

This might as well be deleted as this is way off topic. we know the bad word censor is junk but that's not the issue. As a person with respect to other racers i feel you should shift+s no matter what happends to avoid causing others to crash into you and ruining there race. It's that simple i don't care if you are a new racer or an old racer or not even a racer. Again i'm not asking for the rules to be changed or admin or anything to change i just want to know how other AA team members feels about this. So i will say this one more time.

If you can avoid ruining other racers race by hitting shift+s on the AA server should you do so? or should you not shift+s and allow other to crash into you and ruin there race?

My words might had not been clear but Seven here explained exactly my point of view. That's my opinion too.

[spe1l]

So we are agreed:

"If you know... You know that you've messed up a line, you know that you broke a little too late and you know you are putting another driver at risk with your mistake and you are unable to correct it by turning off the track for example, then and only then should you use Shift+S if you can do so."
If you spin or crash and the result will ruin the race then you should hit shift+S good debate people look forward to racing you all

[AA™| Vim Fuego]

Hang on, Spe1l - you forgot to allow me my rebuttal.

1. The people who really need to use shift-S don't know that they need to use shift-S.
The only way they will learn is if someone tells them, so kicking or banning them serves no useful purpose. Spe1l is mistaken in his claim that I don't think shift-S is ever needed - I'll tell newbies to shift-S if they are a danger to lapping cars, or I will do it myself, and then - most importantly - explain what they are doing wrong. Backmarkers that repeatedly sit on the track waiting for other cars do get banned, as that crosses the line between genuine mistake and deliberate crashing.

2. If you actually are an experienced driver, you should be able to correct any mistakes you make instead of resorting to magically teleporting away. If you are a considerate driver, you can use shift-S if you want to, but don't try to force your opinions onto others claiming that it's a rule when it's not.

3. Not everyone can reach their keyboard in time to use shift-S, and by the time they do the damage is already done. This makes spectating moot. When I am in VR, I can't even see my keyboard, therefore I use my driving skill to mitigate damage - as Seven said. I also pay attention to what other drivers are doing and am usually able to avoid the majority of accidents this way. I see too many people charging full-speed into yellow flag situations, crashing, and then getting upset when actually, it's completely their own fault.

4. LFS is a simulator. As in real-life - even at the very top echelons of motorsport - shit happens. IRL you might spend weeks getting your car ready, only to be taken out in the first race on the first corner, and that's it for your race weekend. Another race isn't going to start 5 minutes later with magically repaired cars.

5. Abusing someone for not getting out of your way or not having the skill to live up to your expectations is more likely to end with you being the one to get kicked. Kode's assumption that shift-S is a hard-and-fast rule was completely wrong, as were all of his other assumptions. Anyone who wants to talk about what they 'know' in the future should probably do some reading first (see point 2).

6. You are driving on the lowest level server in all of LFS - if other peoples' skill levels are not up to your expectations, we have another server that has a lower PB lock suitable for more experienced drivers. But no, you insist on coming to that one server. That's like standing in the rain and complaining about getting wet rather than moving under cover.

7. Marshal is a server-sitter, not a full-time participant. A lot of stuff will happen while I'm not watching, and even when I am, it may happen on another part of the track... I'm not ever going to be everywhere at the same time. I happen to be around a little more often at the moment as I am between jobs, but don't get too used to it.

and lastly...

8. I've been on other servers and have been kicked for AVOIDING crashes instead of using shift-S. If this is what enforcing a shift-S rule comes to, then I will not have it, and I will actively fight against anyone who tries to force it on me.

[AA™| Seven]

Perfect, we're all agreed then!

Shift S is a courtesy, not a rule based on the statements previously said by us all but in different words. I do love these debates, the English language is so easily misinterpreted sometimes