Shift + S debate

[spe1l]

So today me and some other racers were having a debate with Marshal about the shift+S rule. He made it clear that people do not need to shift+s to avoid ruining others race because it's close to real life. Now my argument and many others is that if you can avoid ruining a race then you should do so as it shows respect. most if not all the top lfs racers and regulars agree with this so my question is to the AA team on what they think about the shift+s. Do you feel it is ok not to shift + s and cause others to crash or should you respect others in the race and avoid ruining the race? Look forward to reading replies thank you Spe1l

[realcamino]

So today me and some other racers were having a debate with Marshal about the shift+S rule. He made it clear that people do not need to shift+s to avoid ruining others race because it's close to real life. Now my argument and many others is that if you can avoid ruining a race then you should do so as it shows respect. most if not all the top lfs racers and regulars agree with this so my question is to the AA team on what they think about the shift+s. Do you feel it is ok not to shift + s and cause others to crash or should you respect others in the race and avoid ruining the race? Look forward to reading replies thank you Spe1l

yes I agree, maybe the problem is there is not enough (cool) admins to manage the noobs (about this why "noob" is prohibited on this server, everybody has been noob..) is it possible to give limad right to some MRc admins ? (for my part I've high rt on all servers, I hope a good spirit and I'm admin on MRc)

thanks for your answer

[AA™| Vim Fuego]

I've made my views on this clear, so I'll just let other the other members have their say on the matter.

realcamino: The reason 'noob' is a banned word is because people most often use it in a derogatory sense - that is to say, as an insult - and insulting other drivers, even if you believe they deserve it, is not allowed.

[spe1l]

Just to make things clear your view is. It is perfectly fine to not even attempt to shift + s to avoid ruining the race for other? Even if you crash or get crashed etc etc.

[realcamino]

I've made my views on this clear, so I'll just let other the other members have their say on the matter.

realcamino: The reason 'noob' is a banned word is because people most often use it in a derogatory sense - that is to say, as an insult - and insulting other drivers, even if you believe they deserve it, is not allowed.

Thanks for your answer, then in your way, should you ban words like "kid" or "stupid", where is the line ? I dont want make all a pizza on that, it is not really important, just surprising, especially when you dont know it and you lose your rt for that...

For my part I think there is not line then that maybe better to let connected people being responsibles and allow some rights, like limad 2, to more people to manage it right and permise fun for all.

I like AA server because I know many drivers there, with MRc (my dear pub), that's like 2 pubs in the same street, same people, same rules, same stats. Only old dark mystics stuffs oppose them but ok, duality is good anyway

thanks for sharing your opinion

[spe1l]

Side note i'm not asking for the rules to be changed but i would like to hear off other AA racers what they think about allowing people to not shift+s and ruin races

[AA™| Vim Fuego]

then in your way, should you ban words like "kid" or "stupid", where is the line ?

It's all about context - 'noob' is, and always has been, an insult - 'newb' or 'newbie' is a descriptor for an inexperienced person. 'kid' and 'stupid' have contexts outside their use as insults.

For my part I think there is not line then that maybe better to let connected people being responsibles and allow some rights, like limad 2, to more people to manage it right and permise fun for all.

Not being a team member, there's no accountability for their actions unless a member is there to see it happening. In the same way that not all fast drivers are good racers, being an experienced driver does not mean they're going to be a good admin, and without accountability, there's no reason for them to be fair in any way.

Anyway, this is off-topic - lets get back to the original subject...

[AA™| prasanths96]

Comment on Shift+S :


I might say, if someone is in crowd, and if he fails by himself (especially if hes a newbie, it will kill everyone's sport) , Shift + S will save other people's race. If the person is well experienced, I believe that he will at least try to avoid crash to others by his expertise, hence making it real without killing sport.
I believe Shift+S is not always needed but in some cases, it will help the race clean.

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Comment on Reaclcamino contradicting/doubting the decision of AA admins: 

So today me and some other racers were having a debate with Marshal about the shift+S rule. He made it clear that people do not need to shift+s to avoid ruining others race because it's close to real life. Now my argument and many others is that if you can avoid ruining a race then you should do so as it shows respect. most if not all the top lfs racers and regulars agree with this so my question is to the AA team on what they think about the shift+s. Do you feel it is ok not to shift + s and cause others to crash or should you respect others in the race and avoid ruining the race? Look forward to reading replies thank you Spe1l

yes I agree, maybe the problem is there is not enough (cool) admins to manage the noobs (about this why "noob" is prohibited on this server, everybody has been noob..) is it possible to give limad right to some MRc admins ? (for my part I've high rt on all servers, I hope a good spirit and I'm admin on MRc)

thanks for your answer

I wonder who you are calling noobs, (and as Vim said , prohibition of the word cuz , the actual descriptor is in fact "newbie", why can't we use that? . "Noob" has always been used as a way to insult in most cases to express frustration or anger, hence its considered swear word. )

Do you refer to people with slow pb times? If so, Everyone (including us) came from that stage.  

Since I was an admin who was online on the server most of the time, Let me explain my way of banning: 

Most of the times the server is locked to a time of 1.19.00. So, the real bothersome ones who cant even complete a single lap is avoided. 

Then, there are people under 1.19 who understands clean racing and grow and who doesn't. Those people who make mistake and wouldn't admit it will be kicked as 1st warning then explained why he was kicked with the warning of ban on next incident. Those who doesn't grow will get banned. 

The complicated category is the ones in pb time range - (1.13.00 to 1.16.00). They make mistakes frequently and apologize for it, if they do that frequently, they will get kicks/bans too. 

On contrary, there are players under 1.13.00 who is selfish and doesn't care about others race and make race threatening aggressive moves. (Are they noobs?) They will be given a few chances more than newbies cuz they can race clean if their mind is right, and even then if they doesn't change, they get punished as everyone else.

So, omitting all these types of racers, we have what left is players who tend to race clean and sometimes make mistakes (To err is human right?)
I see everything is organized good here. So, i don't get it, you want us to ban humans ? or the past of ourselves? 

What quick racers ought to follow :

It is only in rare cases that the same person become victim of mistakes by different person repeatedly. 
In other cases, it is because of fast players making tight moves with newbies which can only be handled by experienced players. I play 10 hours a day in AA Server, and i get crashed approximately 10 times a day because of others' mistakes. That doesn't frustrate me. 
Why do i not get affected a lot? Because i don't make slick moves with newbies on tight corners. I wait patiently and pass when the situation is right.

Even in real life races these kinda things happen where a fast racer gets stuck behind a slow one. What will he do? he patiently waits , he has to change his speed and lines on a corner and pass when situation is right. If he keeps on his fast pace and they both get crashed, i hardly believe the slower racer will get disqualified. It is the mistake of neither and just a "Race Incident". 

Racers have to understand and accept race incidents when they happen. To enjoy maximum reality and experience, quick racers when they are near the slow ones must use all their experience and make moves patiently like any real life racer will do.

---

Conclusion :

-We are human and we allow human racers (Mistakes are accepted but not excessively).

-Lack of patience and/or lack of understanding in Race Incidents cause racers to get frustrated of slow racers. <-----(Type 2 racers).

-We're not running championship races with prize money here to ban slow racers. They are just casual servers for casual players who want to race and have fun.

-Importantly, WE DO PUNISH CRASHERS WITH LONG BANS. (Some Type 2 racers claimed this outside forums.)

-I do not know if MRc used to ban slow racers of their legitimate mistakes, because most players who claimed this "Ban noobs" has been racing in MRc. 

-Finally, This is my theory of my categorizing of players who has to be banned and who has to be accepted of his Race Incidents and i believe this theory as much goes along with the policy of AA which we strictly follow. 

-Pras

[spe1l]

This might as well be deleted as this is way off topic. we know the bad word censor is junk but that's not the issue. As a person with respect to other racers i feel you should shift+s no matter what happends to avoid causing others to crash into you and ruining there race. It's that simple i don't care if you are a new racer or an old racer or not even a racer. Again i'm not asking for the rules to be changed or admin or anything to change i just want to know how other AA team members feels about this. So i will say this one more time.

If you can avoid ruining other racers race by hitting shift+s on the AA server should you do so? or should you not shift+s and allow other to crash into you and ruin there race?

[AA™| Seven]

Back on topic... As an experienced racer within LFS, Administrator for leagues/one-off's and driver IRL, I know that rubbing is racing. It happens, someone slightly misjudges how much space they have between their A pillar and the extra few inches out to the curvature of the door. Sometimes if a player is lagging in-game this may cause someone to spin off. It happens, we apologize for it, we accept and we carry on. End of.

If you know... You know that you've messed up a line, you know that you broke a little too late and you know you are putting another driver at risk with your mistake and you are unable to correct it by turning off the track for example, then and only then should you use Shift+S if you can do so. We all push the limits to keep a place, but we also know what the risks are in doing so, if you can see it going dangerously wrong - do something about it! 9 times out of 10, you won't need the Spectate as you've already swerved the opposite way to avoid collision, or you broke, whatever, drive like you would a real car (if you know how).

We all crash sometimes, I'll hold my hand up -as a 5 and a half year Limad for AA- that I have had some bad crashes with folks all over LFS. If they're my fault I will straight up apologize and most of the time you can carry on from that. I've been banned from servers too because I've been treated like every other player, regardless of my rank which I think is perfectly acceptable, if I mess up, I will take the consequence whether it be a penalty or even a ban. Have I ever Spectated to avoid an incident? Yes. Only when I have rolled on track and I'm getting out of the way of others behind me. I felt the car going over, I avoided it by spectating.

It's simple really in my eyes. You don't need it, unless you can not fix what you envision is about to happen.