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+---- Thread: Ban reason (/thread-584.html)
Re: Ban reason - senna - 10-21-2014
(10-21-2014, 07:02 PM)meddc link Wrote: I have reviewed the logs. I have to say there is not much in there of note. mundziel is actually very quiet in the chat on the server. The exchange goes like this:
Code:14.10.19 19:27:19 #2 C17P00 ortek87 - AA? | Senna : sürekli yasakl?yorum onu
Which I believe is a comment in relation to the previous ban? Google translate isn't so good at giving me context for this.
Munziel pipes up:
Code:14.10.19 19:27:30 #2 C60P00 mundziel - mundziel : turkish talking starts
Then we have shortly afterwards:
Code:14.10.19 19:27:38 #2 C60P00 mundziel - mundziel : im outta here before they will ban me
14.10.19 19:27:46 #2 C17P00 ortek87 - AA? | Senna : oh the little racist guy is here again
14.10.19 19:27:58 #2 C60P00 mundziel - mundziel : yeah, greetings from europe
14.10.19 19:28:06 #2 C17P00 ortek87 - AA? | Senna : too bad, i live in europe too :(
14.10.19 19:28:22 #2 C60P00 mundziel - mundziel : not so.
14.10.19 19:28:32 #2 C60P00 mundziel - mundziel : ppl can say its europe ;]
14.10.19 19:28:43 #2 C60P00 mundziel - mundziel : i have little different view on it
14.10.19 19:28:47 #2 C60P00 mundziel - mundziel : anyway, bye
You know Meddc, phrase "greetings from europe" is the main core of his insults at his first ban months ago. He comes to the server, sets an ambush after seeing me on, and starting by "oh the turkish speaking started", just to take the conversation into the direction he wanted to.
Me saying "oh the racist guy is here" is stating the obvious. A normal person would get offended by this right ? I get an answer as "yeah, greetings from europe"... Can that come from a person who thinks what he did was wrong and his banishment was just ? Isn't that pretty much obvious that this guy was trying to make me remember the exchange we had the last time? Why would I have the urge to still further explain myself although the comments are on my favor?! Maybe I'm too good at reading what is actually being said.
Also, what I say through personal messages to anyone, unless I'm not harassing them, is a matter between me and the receiver of that PM. Its hilarious that it had to be mentioned...
I've never had any complaints about mundziel about his driving, never seen him picking on other turkish or any other 2nd or 3rd world country residents( ! ), just me. I've never seen mundziel driving unfair or anything.
I don't expect empathy from someone who lives amongst the bullies (but thyself not a bully) to empathise on how it is to be bullied with such concept.
Re: Ban reason - delta s4 - 10-22-2014
I've checked logs, and i stated that he likes to push limads into acting against him. He is one of those guys that dont learn from bans.
Re: Ban reason - Vim Fuego - 10-22-2014
I'm going to play devil's advocate here, please bear with me.
A debate about relative geography is nothing to get upset about, and as our Code of Conduct states, "An AA member should never allow themselves to be drawn into an argument." It continues, "Never force your will on people in the face of differing opinions."
As much as I want to support Senna here, I don't see anything in this exchange that constitutes a two-week ban, and the only insult that I can see comes from Senna himself when he calls Mundziel a racist. Saying "oh the little racist guy is here again" is not stating the obvious. It is broadcasting an opinion of Mundziel to everyone on the server whether they are interested or not.
Remembering that, just like us here on the forum, everyone else on the server most likely doesn't know any of the back-story either, and so all they see is an admin insulting a player.
Code of conduct once again - "You are given the extended rights to help manage the servers and to enable others to have good and clean races", not to be used to control others who disagree with your opinions. (edit)
What I'd like to see now is an apology from both parties and a promise that this situation isn't ever referred to again by either party, on this forum or in-game. Any further friction should be dealt with by ignoring the antagonist. If it does get bad enough that action needs to be taken, recording the date and time (for chat altercations) or saving the replay (for driving incidents) is all that's needed.
Re: Ban reason - exzibit - 10-22-2014
All that Vim said would be right if we are living in Black and White World. But, sadly, world is all between that two, It's gray.
Code of conduct that Vim like so much, is not low, it's more something like guide. It helps you to figure out how to menage servers. But it doesn't have all the answers you need. If we only would act in way that is written in some "Code of conduct" that code would be large as encyclopedia.
If only rules are ones that we have in Code of conduct, that would mean that anyone who can remember them and follow them can be admin.
Why than we are choosing only trusted and experienced racers for admins? I thought it's because when it comes that we have to choose whom to believe, when evidence are not shown, we need to believe to our members which is already tested and has our trust.
Re: Ban reason - Jacques - 10-22-2014
Vim, Mundziel´s best course of action would have been to try to sort this mess out with Senna privately.
This case isn´t about differing opinions or a dispute, its about racist comments aimed at Senna - and there is no rule a Limad has to keep cool when receiving racist comments. We have zero tolerance towards racism.
What Exzibit says about trusting our teammates is on point. Trust is our core value, and to have a crack at that - outside entity has to make the case with proper proof.
Re: Ban reason - meddc - 10-22-2014
This is not really about racism. It's about one individual stirring up trouble and another individual reacting to it. My view is that members should by all means ban troublemakers but not get involved in any arguments or backchat. I also think this report doesn't merit all this debate. It has been discussed to death and no further good can come to the team or the original poster from dissecting it further.
Re: Ban reason - Jacques - 10-22-2014
Meddc, sending you a pm.
Re: Ban reason - senna - 10-22-2014
As much as I would like to answer accusations towards me, I will rest my case now. Anybody who would like to know why their team member got so upset after seeing a racer months after, still referring to the exchange we had about how "Turks as a nation are filth, how Turks are not human but monkeys, this is why Turks never become a part of Europe and Turkey is not in Europe geographically despite the geographians claim otherwise because Europe only humans reside in Europe" (a peak from earlier), they are welcomed to ask me in private and apologize to me if they see fit.
It was great to see that I grown on most of the members as having a good judgement, thank you guys for all the support
really appreciate it.
Re: Ban reason - Vim Fuego - 10-22-2014
Senna: My apologies, this is nothing personal, I am not levelling any accusations against you - this isn't your snafu.
I trust your judgement because everyone else here does too. I have only read 3 posts by Mundziel, not counting the chat log, and he doesn't sound very pleasant at all, but we have basically put ourselves on trial here by evidencing the logs. In that log Mundziel didn't say anything that couldn't have been ignored. And now he's called us on it. This thread really should not even exist.
Everyone else: why bring out the log and post it publicly for dissection? It was a presentation of a complete lack of evidence that, imo, does appear to make it look unfair to Mundziel. Again, I'm not levelling any accusations at Senna at all, and without knowing the back-story until now (thanks Senna, you're right, no-one should have to put up with that sort of treatment), all I could say was he should have handled it differently, to reiterate: no-one else on the server knew any of the back-story, and so all they saw was an admin provoking/insulting a player - it doesn't matter if the insult is true or not. But that doesn't matter now because anyone who comes to this forum can also now see it, and so a situation that could have, and should have, been handled privately is now up for public discussion.
Discussion was encouraged merely by leaving the thread going - so I am confused as to why. I would have thought that the idea behind my post was fair, to remind people of the values we set for ourselves, which i think are important, especially if you're going to be publicly addressing them at times like these.
Senna, once again I am sorry for the way you feel you have been treated, but the only real evidence in this particular matter does not damn Mundziel as much as you may want me to feel it has.
Re: Ban reason - delta s4 - 10-22-2014
Like Senna said, this episode is the following of what happened MONTHS ago, what happened back then only they can tell, but what i can tell is that "mundziel" likes to upset limads into acting against him, maybe this is finally teach him something.
I back up Senna 100% in this matter, no player has to endure insults comming from other player, and those that does are to affraid to react to the situation.
Mundziel clearly has some problems towards turkish people, otherwise he wouldn't have said what he said, so mundziel stop being the victim and assume you were wrong comming here accusing Senna of bad admin.
(10-20-2014, 03:56 PM)mundziel link Wrote: I want to know ban reason. And i feel that isnt good, if one of server admins/mods feels like God, to ban and kick whoever he wants without reason.
No, we don't ban players for no reason, and no we don't feel like God because we have some power in the servers.